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Posted by: Roger (66.108.246.108) on August 22, 2003 at 08:17:43

Location: NYC

In Reply to: Advice needed from photogs/ agents posted by Robin on August 22, 2003 at 01:22:06:

Robin, as someone else suggested, location is very important. You didn't provide yours, which makes it difficult to give advice (the answers are different for a "commercial model" in New York than for one in Los Angeles, and even more different for one in, say, Omaha.) But since your email address traces to an ISP in Montana, I'm going to answer as though that's where you are.

What I say will NOT be agreed to by your local agency, I'm pretty sure, and you probably shouldn't bring it up in your negotiations with them. But you ought to have it in the back of your mind during the discussions.

There is no city in Montana large enough to sustain a multi-person true "modeling agency". To survive as a business they have to do one or both of two things: be a modeling-school-and-agency (with the great predominance of emphasis on "school" because that's where the money is) or be a "mother agency" where they attempt to place their models in larger markets (for a percentage of the take), or take them to modeling conventions like MAAI or IMTA (for which, again, they make money). Given that, one of the least important issues is "pictures that will make clients hire models".

Still, let's talk about what pictures those might be just for the sake of completion.

In all probability there isn't a single client in the State of Montana that would consider flying in a model from Los Angeles or New York for a job, so you really don't have to worry about what the standards in the major markets are. Clients in, say, Billings are used to seeing a pretty low standard in the images on comp cards, and neither technical excellence, adherence to large market contemporary standards nor creativity is expected or required. A simple head shot, full length shot and enough different poses and outfits to fill the composite card are all that is required. It's pretty common (although a bad idea) to have more than one picture on the card in the same outfit and same background. After all, it saves time, effort and film, so photographers in such small markets have traditionally done it. And, as a practical matter, it doesn't much matter if you do it, since there won't be anyone in a competing agency with vastly better shots. About all you have to do to distinguish yourself from a portrait photographer is not use painted canvas or any kind of muslin background, and do use relatively flat lighting, and you are making "model pictures".

(I know, this sounds very critical, but it's the reality of such markets. I've seen lots of comp cards from Montana).

OK, that takes care of what kinds of pictures you need to get a model hired in Montana (to the degree that's possible).

Now a brief discussion of "school" pictures (and this is probably the most relevant to your situation):

The purpose of a "modeling school" is to give the impression that they are creating "models". The purpose of "modeling school pictures" is to create the impression that the "model" has "model pictures". That done, everyone is happy.

It is rare indeed for anyone to come to a "modeling school" looking to be a "commercial" or "character" model. They all want to be a "real model" - which translates to "fashion model". So if you take pictures which are distinctively different from "portraits", and show the person "modeling" (that is, using all the poses and expressions the school has taught them) everyone will be happy. You will have a satisfied school and pleased parents. I know, that sounds harsh and cynical too, but it's the reality of the situation.

Now none of that has anything to do with what real modeling portfolio or composite card pictures need to look like in real, substantial, competitive modeling markets. But that's not what you are in, and the demands of your "customers" don't have anything much to do with what "real" modeling pictures look like.

Now let's talk about photos for the "mother agency" component of such "agencies". They have two purposes:

1. To convince the customer that they have "modeling pictures" which can be sent to other, larger agencies or shown in competitions in the conventions. (Note: "convince the customer" isn't the same thing as actually producing effective shots for those markets. Nobody much in Montana knows what that is supposed to be, so it's whatever they say it is.)

2. To really have pictures which will make a real fashion agency in New York, Los Angeles or, possibly, Chicago or Miami take on their models. Notice I said "fashion agency" - commercial agencies aren't going to take a model in Montana no matter what the pictures look like, so it doesn't matter to them.

Item two only applies to girls that have real, major market agency potential. You might run across three of these in a good year in Montana. They will be 5'9" tall or more, dress size 4 or less, have long legs and a beautiful face. Anybody else is back to item one.

Taking pictures for this second, very small group is much more difficult if you want to get a successful result. What you do depends on the type of model (editorial, fashion print, "commercial fashion") and the target market. The pictures for a potential NYC editorial fashion model would not look anything like what you should do for the other models you shoot - and they would be pretty useless on the Montana marketplace. Local clients would see them and have an immune reaction instantly: "foreign protein".

The above is admittedly a somewhat cynical, but I believe accurate, assessment of the situation you will find yourself in. It is also very brief - the full answer to the question you asked is very lengthy and depends on what the real purpose of the pictures is, and where they will be used.

Follow Ups:

• Re: Advice needed from photogs/ agents - Robin 09:30:44 08/22/03 (1)
  • Modeling agencies and schools - Roger 10:07:49 08/22/03 (0)
• On pricing - Roger 08:59:48 08/22/03 (0)

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: Robin, as someone else suggested, location is very important.  You didn't provide yours, which makes it difficult to give advice (the answers are different for a "commercial model" in New York than for one in Los Angeles, and even more different for one in, say, Omaha.)  But since your email address traces to an ISP in Montana, I'm going to answer as though that's where you are.

: What I say will NOT be agreed to by your local agency, I'm pretty sure, and you probably shouldn't bring it up in your negotiations with them.  But you ought to have it in the back of your mind during the discussions.

: There is no city in Montana large enough to sustain a multi-person true "modeling agency".  To survive as a business they have to do one or both of two things:  be a modeling-school-and-agency (with the great predominance of emphasis on "school" because that's where the money is) or be a "mother agency" where they attempt to place their models in larger markets (for a percentage of the take), or take them to modeling conventions like MAAI or IMTA (for which, again, they make money).  Given that, one of the <u>least</u> important issues is "pictures that will make clients hire models".

: Still, let's talk about what pictures those might be just for the sake of completion.

: In all probability there isn't a single client in the State of Montana that would consider flying in a model from Los Angeles or New York for a job, so you really don't have to worry about what the standards in the major markets are.  Clients in, say, Billings are used to seeing a pretty low standard in the images on comp cards, and neither technical excellence, adherence to large market contemporary standards nor creativity is expected or required.  A simple head shot, full length shot and enough different poses and outfits to fill the composite card are all that is required.  It's pretty common (although a bad idea) to have more than one picture on the card in the same outfit and same background.  After all, it saves time, effort and film, so photographers in such small markets have traditionally done it.  And, as a practical matter, it doesn't much matter if you do it, since there won't be anyone in a competing agency with vastly better shots.  About all you have to do to distinguish yourself from a portrait photographer is <u>not</u> use painted canvas or any kind of muslin background, and do use relatively flat lighting, and you are making "model pictures".

: (I know, this sounds very critical, but it's the reality of such markets.  I've seen lots of comp cards from Montana).

: OK, that takes care of what kinds of pictures you need to get a model hired in Montana (to the degree that's possible).

: Now a brief discussion of "school" pictures (and this is probably the most relevant to your situation):

: The purpose of a "modeling school" is to give the impression that they are creating "models".  The purpose of "modeling school pictures" is to create the impression that the "model" has "model pictures".  That done, everyone is happy.

: It is rare indeed for anyone to come to a "modeling school" looking to be a "commercial" or "character" model.  They all want to be a "real model" - which translates to "fashion model".  So if you take pictures which are distinctively different from "portraits", and show the person "modeling" (that is, using all the poses and expressions the school has taught them) everyone will be happy.  You will have a satisfied school and pleased parents.  I know, that sounds harsh and cynical too, but it's the reality of the situation.

: Now none of that has anything to do with what real modeling portfolio or composite card pictures need to look like in real, substantial, competitive modeling markets.  But that's not what you are in, and the demands of your "customers" don't have anything much to do with what "real" modeling pictures look like.

: Now let's talk about photos for the "mother agency" component of such "agencies".  They have two purposes:

: 1.  To convince the customer that they have "modeling pictures" which can be sent to other, larger agencies or shown in competitions in the conventions.  (Note:  "convince the customer" isn't the same thing as actually producing effective shots for those markets.  Nobody much in Montana knows what that is supposed to be, so it's whatever they say it is.)

: 2.  To really have pictures which will make a real fashion agency in New York, Los Angeles or, possibly, Chicago or Miami take on their models.  Notice I said "fashion agency" - commercial agencies aren't going to take a model in Montana no matter what the pictures look like, so it doesn't matter to them.

: Item two only applies to girls that have real, major market agency potential.  You might run across three of these in a good year in Montana.  They will be 5'9" tall or more, dress size 4 or less, have long legs and a beautiful face.  Anybody else is back to item one.

: Taking pictures for this second, very small group is much more difficult if you want to get a successful result.  What you do depends on the type of model (editorial, fashion print, "commercial fashion") and the target market.  The pictures for a potential NYC editorial fashion model would not look anything like what you should do for the other models you shoot - and they would be pretty useless on the Montana marketplace.  Local clients would see them and have an immune reaction instantly:  "foreign protein".

: The above is admittedly a somewhat cynical, but I believe accurate, assessment of the situation you will find yourself in.  It is also very brief - the full answer to the question you asked is very lengthy and depends on what the real purpose of the pictures is, and where they will be used.


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