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Posted by: Owen Phairis (66.215.36.195) on June 01, 2003 at 16:32:08

Location: Southern Califorina and Las Vegas

In Reply to: Re: Stop knocking snapshots! posted by Darren Stehr on June 01, 2003 at 13:54:20:

: Let us clear some things up. I never suggested 'snapshots' are art, I simply proposed they have a lot greater value than they were given in the posts. If I were asked if 'snapshots' were art I would have to think about it long and hard before I would quickly dismiss them. Second, genre does not refer to title rather, according to the dictionary, "kind,category, or sort, esp. of literary or artistic work". ie landscape photography, pictorialism, etc.

: I have a lot of difficulties with you defining the difference between art and the 'snapshot'. It ignores entirely creativity which ignores control altogether, Art Brut. It is even intrusive, with a condition being that the photographer must manipulate the scene to validate it as art.

:
: It is my personal view, and not directed at any one individual, the entire '... is photography art ' debate is a waste and those on both sides who argue it desperately need to get over themselves. There are more important issues in photography other than this petty issue. Do you see painters, even the worst painter, arguing as to whether or not their latest work is art or not? How often do we see one genre of photography cutting up another?... more times than I care to count.

: My favourite defintion of art comes from a Canadian judge that had to define art in a case where the actual artwork was on trial as opposed to an accused person. He defined it in two words, "Art disturbs", -Justice David McCombs. You simply cannot interpret as meaning that you need to present gore and violence to create art because only a simple variance (a change in colour) is enough to disturb.

: Darren

Thanks for your input.

Glad we agree on some items. The "title" thing was not meant for you but was headed towards someone else that objected to the title of my original post.

I guess my main point of dissagreement with you is over the comment: "the photographer must manipulate the scene to validate it as Art." This is true according to Websters dictionary.
Otherwise we simply call it documentary. Art is often stated as man's interpitation of nature. Without manipulation there can be no interpitation.

Also, there have been a great many debates with painters over Art during the 20th century. Is spilling paint on canvas was a big debate on was it Art.

I agree 100% about not getting into this debate. All my original post said was that I like pictures that tell a story.

Not sure what important issues face photography today other than a total lack of leadership and a spokesperson.

As for your Judge's definition of Art... all I can say is that I personally wish he had said: "Art pleases" Again, this is just one photographers opinon, mine.

Thanks again for your interesting comments,
Owen

Follow Ups:

• A subset of "disturbance" - Michael McGowan 17:35:39 06/01/03 (0)

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Comments:
: : Let us clear some things up. I never suggested 'snapshots' are art, I simply proposed they have a lot greater value than they were given in the posts. If I were asked if 'snapshots' were art I would have to think about it long and hard before I would quickly dismiss them. Second, genre does not refer to title rather, according to the dictionary, "kind,category, or sort, esp. of literary or artistic work". ie landscape photography, pictorialism, etc.

: : I have a lot of difficulties with you defining the difference between art and the 'snapshot'. It ignores entirely creativity which ignores control altogether, Art Brut. It is even intrusive, with a condition being that the photographer must manipulate the scene to validate it as art.

: : 
: : It is my personal view, and not directed at any one individual, the entire '... is photography art ' debate is a waste and those on both sides who argue it  desperately need to get over themselves. There are more important issues in photography other than this petty issue. Do you see painters, even the worst painter, arguing as to whether or not their latest work is art or not? How often do we see one genre of photography cutting up another?... more times than I care to count.

: : My favourite defintion of art comes from a Canadian judge that had to define art in a case where the actual artwork was on trial as opposed to an accused person. He defined it in two words, "Art disturbs", -Justice David McCombs. You simply cannot interpret as meaning that you need to present gore and violence to create art because only a simple variance (a change in colour) is enough to disturb. 

: : Darren

: 
: Thanks for your input.

: Glad we agree on some items. The "title" thing was not meant for you but was headed towards someone else that objected to the title of my original post.

: I guess my main point of dissagreement with you is over the comment: "the photographer must manipulate the scene to validate it as Art."  This is true according to Websters dictionary.
: Otherwise we simply call it documentary. Art is often stated as man's interpitation of nature. Without manipulation there can be no interpitation.

: Also, there have been a great many debates with painters over Art during the 20th century. Is spilling paint on canvas was a big debate on was it Art.

: I agree 100% about not getting into this debate. All my original post said was that I like pictures that tell a story.

: Not sure  what important issues face photography today other than a total lack of leadership and a spokesperson.

: As for your Judge's definition of Art... all I can say is that I personally wish he had said: "Art pleases"  Again, this is just one photographers opinon, mine.

: Thanks again for your interesting comments,
: Owen 


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